Dating Daycare
Welcome to "Dating Daycare," the ultimate safe space for women navigating the unpredictable world of modern dating. Join hosts Melissa Firpo and Allison Waterman as they dish out candid advice, share hilarious anecdotes, and tackle the toughest dating dilemmas faced by women today.
In a dating landscape filled with frogs disguised as princes and a jungle of jerks, Melissa and Allison offer a nurturing haven where women can laugh, learn, and empower each other to find love on their own terms. From ghosting to breadcrumbing, from disastrous first dates to navigating online profiles, "Dating Daycare" covers it all with wit, wisdom, and plenty of wine.
With Melissa's no-nonsense approach and Allison's comedic charm, each episode feels like a heart-to-heart chat with your best girlfriends over brunch. Whether you're swiping left or swiping right, "Dating Daycare" is your go-to guide for surviving and thriving in the wild world of modern romance.
So grab your favorite beverage, kick back, and join Melissa and Allison as they navigate the highs, lows, and hilarities of dating life. Because when it comes to matters of the heart, everyone could use a little TLC from "Dating Daycare.
Dating Daycare
SHOCKING TELL ALL: Jack's Journey Through Infidelity, Divorce, and Rediscovering Joy
Imagine being caught in the whirlwind of attraction and infidelity, navigating the complexities of secret affairs in the bustling cityscape. Join us as Jack, our first male guest, bravely opens up about his journey through these tumultuous experiences. He shares the initial sparks that led him away from his marriage, the thrilling yet challenging logistics of maintaining a hidden relationship, and the emotional rollercoaster of choosing between two loves. Jack's story offers a raw, unfiltered look at the dilemmas that arise when personal desires clash with societal expectations and commitments.
In this episode, we unravel the intricacies of long-term relationships and the often-painful dissolution that follows infidelity. Jack reflects on his twenty-year marriage, the transformation from partners to mere roommates, and the impact of children on intimacy. We discuss the shocking moments of separation, the role of personal accountability, and the emotional journey that comes with accepting such significant life changes. Through Jack's candid reflections, we explore the necessity of attentiveness and shared interests to avoid drifting apart, offering insights into the challenges of maintaining connection amidst life's demands.
Rediscovering joy after a major breakup is a journey filled with unexpected turns. Jack shares his experiences re-entering the dating scene, navigating modern dating apps, and the excitement of forming new connections. We ponder the differing paces at which men and women move on after divorce and the joy of finding partners who bring a sense of adventure back into life. This conversation is a testament to the resilience and personal growth that can arise from the ashes of a broken relationship, as Jack considers the possibilities of love and happiness in the future. Join us for a thoughtful exploration of relationships, self-discovery, and opening new chapters in life.
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Hello and welcome back to Dating. Daycare where we help you navigate through the jungle of jerks. Ladies and gents, we are back today. We have a very exciting episode. I'm very excited for this.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so this gentleman. He has the distinction of being the very first guy on our show.
Speaker 1:Very first. You've been asking for it and we have come through and delivered the first male. We are going to get the male perspective, which we're excited. We're so excited and but to keep him anonymous, we are going to call him Jack. Yes. And we are so excited and thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it. It's brave. It's brave coming on our show.
Speaker 2:Absolutely. I've asked a few guys and they just didn't have the cojones yeah.
Speaker 1:So we thank you, Jack Welcome.
Speaker 2:I'm getting nervous.
Speaker 3:Don't get, nervous, don't get nervous.
Speaker 1:We just want answers, jack, we want answers.
Speaker 2:I have answers we're excited.
Speaker 1:Okay, great, great, great. So why don't you tell us?
Speaker 3:a little bit about your story. I have been married twice now. Okay, I met my first wife in college, married her shortly after three years. To this day I say she's probably the best person I've ever known. I had met somebody else during that time that I was young and dumb and she was very beautiful and very seductive and I fell into that trap, which we'll discuss.
Speaker 1:We'll go into detail, ladies, because we know you have a million. We get question after question after question about that. So should we start? Let's start with that. So, when you met your first wife in college, how long did you date her before you?
Speaker 2:proposed, and exactly how old were you and um.
Speaker 3:I was 25 when we got married young and I think we were together for four years, five years, four and a half years all together between uh before before.
Speaker 1:Yes, yes, okay, so then you got married, happily married, right, everything's going well, whatever. How did you meet the girl that you ended up having the affair with?
Speaker 3:so I was introduced to her by some former co-. At work At a bar.
Speaker 1:Okay, so outside of work but the coworkers Exactly. And you had no children with the first. No, which makes a big difference. Yes, it just does. Started marriage.
Speaker 3:Mm-hmm, and I saw her there before I was even introduced to her and my mouth hit the floor, Mm-hmm. And once we were introduced I knew I was in a lot of trouble.
Speaker 1:Now did she know you were married.
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:Okay. So it was like oh, this is Brad, brad, this is whatever her name was. You're at the bar, it's Christmas party, whatever. And you guys start talking hey, how you doing? Are you married? You know all the regular. What do you do for a living? You have kids, blah, blah, blah, blah. Okay, Exactly. So who? Okay, so now you know, she knows you're married. Was she like, are we going to hang out again? Brad, Like who was the one pursuing, Because when I go out, was she single.
Speaker 3:What was pursuing, because when I go out single, what was her status? Yeah, she was single. Yeah, um, she's a bit younger than I am. Um, it was very mutual okay I certainly needed to take the head um so that you knew I was married and I had to assure her that.
Speaker 1:So you pursued more, I pursued Okay, I pursued Okay, and she was like oh, okay.
Speaker 3:Like sounds good. It wasn't quite that easy, but it wasn't so difficult Okay.
Speaker 2:So I mean, I'm sure you had been attracted to other women before that point, but what was the point of difference that made you say, you know what, let's screw those vows and let's just take a chance on this? What made?
Speaker 3:it worth it. Yeah, what made her so special? The eyes, okay.
Speaker 1:And you said she was prettier than any woman. See, we always discuss this when people write into our show, ladies and gents, and when you're like, oh, looks don't matter, looks aren't everything. And I always say this jack, when you're out somewhere, unless you're doing this online dating and you're scrolling looking at a picture. But for me, who's out in, in the, in the wild, the first thing I'm seeing when a guy's buying me a drink from across the bar is how you look, and that depends whether I'm accepting the drink or not.
Speaker 1:Now you could look like I mean, I love you know the old Pierce Brosnan but, you could look like you know the gods of the earth and then come over and beat a complete jerk once you open your mouth. That I'll agree with. And I could be like I wouldn't date you with a 10-foot pole, but looks matter, looks matter. I wouldn't date you with a 10-foot pole, but looks matter, looks matter, looks matter. And like he's saying, the looks is really what took you and said you know what Screw the like? This is the one because look at her.
Speaker 3:I mean, there was a connection and she was nice, right Of course she opened her mouth, she wasn't stupid, there was an instant electricity there, right, yeah, I mean. But I think that's the case for everyone. Whether you're married or not, you meet somebody You're not marrying, somebody you're not attracted to.
Speaker 1:Absolutely. But I mean, you were married, your wife was attracted to you. But this girl, if she didn't look as good and the connection was there, you might have let it go.
Speaker 2:Yes was there, you might have let it go. Yes, Also question what was going on. Was there trouble in paradise? Were there little cracks in the marriage?
Speaker 3:Not really. I mean, she was getting her doctorate and so she was-, busy, busy a lot of the time. I was at the time working on Wall Street street, um, and oh no, I was actually working in recruiting, but um, it was just there was a lot of time alone. Like my industry was very social, there was always nights out and corporate usually is yeah, my ex is always out I was very good for a while. This again, it was like a lightning bolt.
Speaker 1:And men like attention. We've discussed this.
Speaker 3:I walked away and knew I was screwed, like.
Speaker 1:I was like at the end of the night I was like, yeah, so you exchanged numbers that first night and it was like I'll get in touch, like I'll just you know we'll be in touch.
Speaker 3:Bye, see you. There may have been a kiss or two, okay, in touch. Bye. It may have been a kiss or two, but okay, so that was quick okay that was quick it was? It was, yeah, it was pretty quick okay, and um, it turned out she was a really good woman too, uh which nowadays is hard to find yeah, she's very family oriented.
Speaker 1:She um was ambitious and did any of the friends that introduced you to her vouch for her. Almost like you know, when you meet someone in the wild you don't know if they're a liar or not. But if you had a cousin and you were like, oh, melissa, come to this christmas party and you introduced me, the cousin. I know he's good because he's from you. Yeah to some degree.
Speaker 3:The one person you know had worked with her. You know she's cool because he's from you. Yeah, to some degree.
Speaker 1:The one person you know had worked with her, you know she was cool, Right, so you knew somewhat that she wasn't you know, some flake or whatever.
Speaker 3:But you know, people have different definitions of what cool is.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 3:And even if she could have been cool. It didn't mean there was a spark, but there was a fire.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then. So then you started hanging out. So my next question is once you realized you were in trouble because all the ladies out there you're always asking and we always see on social media I don't understand how we had the time, or you know?
Speaker 3:what was this woman?
Speaker 2:Keep it secret. Keep it secret. What was this woman? Keep it secret.
Speaker 1:Keep it secret. What was this woman thinking? Dating a married man? These are all the questions that our viewers have. What other questions do they have? Oh, I can't believe he would leave me for her. Well, in this instance, that question's answered. She was prettier than you, that's how he left her for you in the beginning, and she was a good person.
Speaker 3:But how did you get away with it. I would say that's partly true, but not fully true. I think, it was that first night there was just an electricity.
Speaker 1:Okay, a super connection.
Speaker 3:It was. I mean mean, I've met beautiful women right, of course, you know I'm fairly looking guy but um yeah, there was just something and I couldn't, I couldn't cut myself away from it okay.
Speaker 1:So then you exchanged numbers and you started texting. Did you meet up right away, did you? How did it?
Speaker 3:so how'd you get away with it? With my job at the time, I was out a lot of nights, so come meet me here.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be here tonight.
Speaker 3:So the cover was or that was my cover.
Speaker 1:I'm meeting someone after work tonight and she was busy at school with her doctorate, exactly so she was busy studying and doing her own thing. You're going to a Christmas party 15 Christmas parties. She's like okay, I'm busy, I party 15 christmas party. She's like okay, I'm busy, I'm doing my own thing.
Speaker 3:okay, right and how long did that go on for before you were like? It was probably six to eight months, maybe a little bit longer, I don't remember exactly.
Speaker 2:And how often were you seeing her? How often were you connecting with her?
Speaker 3:multiple times a week. Yeah, okay, four times a week probably.
Speaker 1:Which, like you said, you got out because of business meeting.
Speaker 3:It got harder and harder as it went on.
Speaker 1:Because you wanted right.
Speaker 3:Well, it was also like how many times can I really have to go out, right?
Speaker 1:And were you living on the island and working?
Speaker 3:in the city. No, all of us were living in the city.
Speaker 1:Okay, the city, I feel, is much easier.
Speaker 3:It's much more conducive to have it.
Speaker 1:No, because, honestly, a lot of men that I meet out in the wild, of course everybody knows right, All the married men hit on me 90%. If I ever entertain the conversation, just for you know, just to entertain, because you know me, I'm like, yeah, tell me, Please tell me, because you guys know I'll never date a married man. They're always like, oh, but we can't go here. If they, if they, if I meet them in Melville, you know they're like we got to go to Garden City. You know we can't go here, we can't. Do I go? This sounds wonderful from the start.
Speaker 2:This sounds like so much fun. Sign me up. So, for reference to the people who are listening to us from, say, Ireland, that's about a 15-mile difference 15, 20-mile difference.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's far enough that it's not anywhere near where we live, but still within reason that you can drive. But all these men are like you can't go here, I can't go there.
Speaker 2:I can't be seen. All these stipulations, oh, my friends go there.
Speaker 1:My wife frequents there.
Speaker 2:So these are all changes that you'd have to make in your life to be able to date this amazing married man. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Okay, all right. So the city, now Manhattan. In case you're not familiar, there's about 8,000 restaurants per city block. I mean, you couldn't. You probably couldn't find your man cheating on you in Manhattan if he even tried. So okay, got it. Okay. So then the both of you are on this journey. She's single. She can get up and go and do whatever. At what point in time were you ready to be like I'm done with my wife and I want to go with you, like that's a big move, and did she give you an ultimatum or anything like that?
Speaker 3:the second woman it was pretty amazing how long it went on without getting that oh, tell us.
Speaker 1:Tell us, I mean I don't even remember the time frame right but give us like it.
Speaker 3:It just didn't come out. We were just kind of in our groove and doing our thing and everybody and you were getting away with it.
Speaker 1:There was no push or pull on your end.
Speaker 3:Not really no um, and then at some point she got tired of it and was like you know, shit or get off the pot. I just made the decision. I said this is who I want to be with.
Speaker 1:And what did you tell your wife? Was she shocked?
Speaker 3:Yes, she was shocked. I think it was getting to me because, if I remember correctly, we were fighting a lot, a lot more than we usually do and we didn't really fight that much.
Speaker 1:Well, because you were probably, I feel like, the person who's cheating gets frustrated. You don't want to be there anymore. Or you're in that transition middle of you're falling in love with her and meanwhile you're married to her, and it has to be annoying I don't want to.
Speaker 3:I don't know, but I think a lot of it was me because, as I said, my first wife was the best person I've ever known and I felt horrible about it and it wasn't intentional, it wasn't like I was out looking for right it, it just happened it happened. Not an excuse, not validating it by any means, but it wasn't like I was miserable in my life.
Speaker 1:Marriage and out looking for it.
Speaker 3:Exactly, exactly. So I think, because of my frustration, we were probably fighting a little bit more than usual, and then the ultimatum you felt pressure. Like, if I don't I was getting it from that side.
Speaker 1:If I don't tell my wife, I'm going to lose her, and then, oh my God, I can't do that which. You know what? I don't know. The audience has to tell us. I feel like that's rare, not like so rare, what exactly? I feel like a lot of men don't pull the trigger.
Speaker 2:Oh no, I feel the same.
Speaker 1:Right, a lot of men nowadays will string along. Right the wife they're never leaving the wife.
Speaker 3:And the side chick right is the one that gets screwed. I think that's more with guys looking to do that.
Speaker 1:Maybe, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean looking to have that kind of arrangement where they have their cake and eat it too Like that wasn't me Like.
Speaker 3:That, you know. And again, I'm not justifying this by any means.
Speaker 1:No, but we want to hear your point of view. That's why we have you on.
Speaker 3:It happened.
Speaker 1:It just happened and you know what Unlucky for his wife what you're describing makes. You know what I'm saying. Like you said, I wasn't looking for it. There was a super connection. It's almost like bad timing and bad luck for your wife A question Was there anything?
Speaker 3:your first wife could have done to have avoided the situation. I think I don't think. No, I don't think she could have done to have avoided the situation. I think I don't think, no, I don't think she could have done anything but I.
Speaker 1:What I would say is I don't know that there was ever the passion that I had with the second with this, with that girl, yeah it, just it was a different relationship it was a different relationship, it was a different which is true. We can all connect with that, right. You've all had boyfriends or husbands or whatever that you're like. Oh my God, that was amazing. Versus eh, that was okay, like it was okay.
Speaker 3:Listen, I mean I again. I was young and dumb. Right and it was, you know, looking back now, would I have done the same thing? I don't know. I mean, I got a lot out of the second relationship, Right?
Speaker 1:which we're going to go into.
Speaker 3:But you know again I felt horrible about what happened.
Speaker 1:Which is interesting. If you were old like now you're older, right, it's 20-something years down the road Would you give up that marriage for?
Speaker 2:the hot Right.
Speaker 1:You would have been like you're hot, I've had a good night with you, drink whatever and be on your merry way, right, right.
Speaker 3:I mean yeah, no, the first wife was very intelligent, very sweet and outgoing very wealthy.
Speaker 1:Family oriented, I'm sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and you know, but it's.
Speaker 1:Was the girl that you're cheating on.
Speaker 3:Also intelligent, family-oriented she's very family-oriented and they accepted me when they had no reason to, when they had no reason to, um, but um. I think intellectually I was probably had more in common with the first one, um, but you know it doesn't make it doesn't? Right there's no comparing it doesn't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's stupid. So, okay, delivered this news to the your wife. What? What was the next? What happened next?
Speaker 3:well, it wasn't like I was like hey, I've met somebody else, it was just what did you say? We're not because of me and whatever I was feeling. We weren't getting along very well and I think, um, you know, she was in school at the time getting a master's or doctorate and and I don't even remember the exact conversation. But one day I was just like I'm done, I'm done, and I moved out shortly after into a shithole apartment on the upper east side.
Speaker 1:Sounds about right.
Speaker 3:And you know, Was that a?
Speaker 1:quick divorce, no kids. It was quick, quick.
Speaker 3:Yeah, just split, boom, done, done.
Speaker 1:And you know what? It's always easier to leave when I feel like for most people, when you have something to go to.
Speaker 3:Do you know what I'm trying to say? I wouldn't If I did not meet her. I would probably still be with her first wife.
Speaker 1:Right, but I feel like for a lot of men also.
Speaker 2:There's no impetus.
Speaker 1:There's no impetus To leave, right, they'll stay. Or I feel like when men leave, they're very quick to get someone new?
Speaker 3:I don't think it's just men that do that.
Speaker 1:It could be women too.
Speaker 3:I think it's both.
Speaker 1:But I feel like when women have children, if they're single, yes, but if they have children, I feel like not as much they can exist being single.
Speaker 2:It's easier.
Speaker 1:It's easier when you have young kids that are living like. For me, it's much easier to be single than it is to introduce you know like that so many hours in a day?
Speaker 3:I mean it's like you know yeah and uh so then you, you gave okay.
Speaker 1:So now you're divorced from your wife, you're with the girl, the that you cheated on her with. Now what goes on?
Speaker 3:it turned out, there was a lot more to her than just pretty eyes, and I'm sure there always is um no, she was I. From a family perspective, I went through a lot um from your family.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I, this is a question I yes.
Speaker 2:How did your family react to that?
Speaker 1:my mother was like you're an idiot rest her soul yeah, because that's what I would tell my son.
Speaker 3:Well, she got cancer and at one point she said that I was the reason that she got it because she stressed her out right, which isn't, but I mean, listen, you know my first wife was her dream. You know she's a nice blonde jewish woman that had a shit ton of money and right, right.
Speaker 1:So she was like what did you do, right, okay, yeah um, so that was that was tough to take that was that was very tough to take, because I was definitely mom's boy.
Speaker 3:I mean I was her favorite and so hearing that you know. So she died shortly after that and funeral was a little awkward.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, both came.
Speaker 3:The new one hid in the background. I was still with, I was separated from the other one. But, and then?
Speaker 1:That's ballsy of the new one I would never.
Speaker 3:Oh, you know what, I was happy she was there.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, support you were probably freaking out because, the yeah, but I still I wouldn't, I wouldn't, I wouldn't.
Speaker 2:I put on a wig and a disguise. Yeah, right.
Speaker 3:I'll say this Routro Mark glasses. My mom and I were very, very close. I was the baby, only boy, in a Jewish family, so at their funeral everybody had left and I couldn't get out Like I was just sitting in this chair. Left, and I couldn't get out like I was just sitting in this chair and the girl that I went with, um, came over and literally picked me up off this chair and walked me away.
Speaker 1:So, um, I know going back to the point of it wasn't just looks right, no, she had a heart and she was in love with you, obviously for her to even go to the funeral and you know, who knows if the I mean who was going to go up to her and be like Start something. Right, or just give her the side eye, no less. You know what I mean.
Speaker 3:Exactly so. From there, you know, we dated for a while, and not even that long, I think we kind of we probably moved in together not too long after that.
Speaker 1:And did you ever hear from this ex-wife again?
Speaker 3:I have not spoken to her since the day we got divorced, since the funeral she was at the funeral right Since the funeral, because now, with no kids, that makes it very easy.
Speaker 1:Like I always say, I don't think I would ever talk to my ex ever again in my life if I didn't have kids, and I'm sure he feels the same way.
Speaker 3:I will say that she traded up. She managed a brain surgeon, so kudos to her Right. But yeah, I've never. The odd thing was I saw her office when I was near where she grew up and I was like, oh, but office when I was near where she grew up and I was like, oh, you know but um, she was a doctor.
Speaker 1:What?
Speaker 3:uh therapist psychologist, psychologist. Okay, so she was in that yeah, brilliant, brilliantly smart and um, so, so, yeah, so that was that, and um, I got married. My dad died two years later and we got married in between.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And how old were you at this point? Give or take. She had no kids. You wanted kids, right?
Speaker 3:33, maybe Okay, Something like that.
Speaker 1:And then you got with her, lived together, had kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah, had two kids, beautiful kids, and you know, life was good.
Speaker 1:Now wait. Was she ever worried that you were going to cheat on her? Nope See that's a dynamic I would be obsessed with that I wouldn't be obsessed, but it would always be in the back of my mind. Well because, or that she was cheating on you, because she's the one that was willing to date the married man.
Speaker 3:No, I think it was the situation.
Speaker 1:You felt comfortable, you felt whole.
Speaker 3:I mean, she never gave me an ultimatum. It was well. I mean, maybe she did, but it was like.
Speaker 1:Light.
Speaker 3:It was like listen, we need to figure this out. Right, like I'm not sticking around to be your side chick. And you just don't like if you want to be with your wife, I'll walk away. Rightfully so.
Speaker 2:There's always that school of thought, though, and I think women have especially women have is how you get them, is how you'll lose them, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:But you know what I always? I just when I'm out and these married men come up to me and they're like, forget about the morons that are like, oh, you want to be my new side chick, you're perfect. Yeah, I know. Okay, forget those. But the ones that are really like, let's go out for a drink, I promise, I promise, like you know the ones that You're like have you heard my show?
Speaker 3:What they obviously haven't.
Speaker 1:But I always, I could never put in the back of my mind that 10 years from now, when I'm old and the Botox isn't holding up my face anymore, that you're not gonna do the same thing to me, like you know. Or you hear the story like oh we, I live in the east wing, she lives in the west wing and and we have two separate lives and we're just together because of finance. I mean, I've heard it all, but I just I'm I. I can never sit well with it you know, nor nor, yeah, I.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I get it, I get it, but you had kids. You were good, everybody's happy right. Life went on for a long time right, yeah, for a long time.
Speaker 1:And everything was good. What do you think now? Were you ever approached? So how long were you with the second one? For 20 years, okay, long time. Did you ever go out and did you not give your number out? Is there anything you changed? Or was it purely just vibes, relationship was different, connection was different. How did it last so long? What would you tell our viewers Because a lot of viewers do not last 18, 20 years?
Speaker 3:I would like to say that I mean in the beginning. It was a lot of passion that carried us for a few years, till the kids came.
Speaker 1:Till the kids came, of course, see and I want to normalize that because a lot of women ask about that too. I see a lot of women being like oh, I just had kids, I'm exhausted, I don't want to have sex, it's a job now. And me included, I was the same way. I had two kids a year apart. Almost I was up every four hours giving bottles. House was clean, dinner was made. The way you left that house you could lick the floors is the way you came home. You would never even know that there was a child or a dish made right homemade baby food or anything.
Speaker 1:I was dressed in sweatpants but showered and looking the way I look now. But you know what? I don't want to have sex with you right now.
Speaker 3:I'm exhausted do you know? What I'm saying, but a lot that happens a lot yeah, I don't think, and that wasn't necessarily in the beginning. I mean, we had a lot of good years together and I think that I'm not exactly sure. To be honest with you, I think that Did you have the same interests.
Speaker 3:No, we did not have a lot of the same interests. I realized that as time went on, we started living not separate lives, but like independently, and I think that we and I take as much blame for this as anything that I think we lost ourselves. I think we didn't get back to doing things that we like to do. It was always a family thing.
Speaker 1:Which happens, which happens?
Speaker 2:Kids.
Speaker 3:And I think that you don't know what's wrong until you see it somewhere else.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:And in a lot of cases I mean obviously there can be blatant stuff that's going on.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But for me it was just like this was life. And you know, it's not all. You know sex in the stairwell type stuff, you know.
Speaker 1:Well, that only lasts so long. Like I always say that you know what I mean, like you know the men that leave and we're stuck with the kids at home. Obviously, I'm not having sex on my stairwell, you know. But I know my ex is oh, I'm sure he's having sex in the kitchen on the table in the dining room wherever he wants, because he doesn't have the kids there. You know what I mean. So, but that doesn't last long.
Speaker 2:That's the fantasy of it. It's not sustainable.
Speaker 1:So what would you say? Like what changed? Did you not have sex? As much Were you not going out to dinner, as much Were you not like? What is it?
Speaker 3:Yes, yes and yes, and over the last couple of years, I think, I've had issues Not worth getting into but, Right, and I think that we grew apart. I think that, no, that's not what I was. I think that we did not pay enough attention to each other um, and just daily life takes over.
Speaker 1:Yes, and then you just kind of you'd like roommates right, almost. And then I feel like that. I feel like that happens to everyone. I feel like it happens to everyone. I feel like it happens to everybody, and that's why there's so many divorces.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's probably some more to it, but I think baseline is probably something along those lines.
Speaker 1:Okay, and then, how did that end? What was the?
Speaker 3:This one was on her. She wanted to separate.
Speaker 1:And Did you see it coming? Were you surprised? I was 1000% blindsided.
Speaker 3:Okay, so it's like karma.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, did you feel?
Speaker 2:Did you feel like this was a karmic episode At some point? Yeah, yes.
Speaker 3:And yeah, like this is a karmic episode, yeah, yes, um and uh, yeah, I mean, I could barely get out of bed for like months. It was horrible, but, um, once I came to grips with it and how old are your kids now? Uh 18 and 15 okay, so they're older yeah, how did they take it? The older one got it, I think. I think she probably saw it more Mm-hmm, I think they both kind of did.
Speaker 1:How they reacted is Was there fighting or anything that went on Like?
Speaker 3:was it smooth or oh no, it got pretty nasty okay um, and yeah, I was, I was pretty lost. I was um, you know, I was totally taken by surprise, you know so what did she come?
Speaker 1:what did she say? Did she come home? Was she I'm done, I want a divorce.
Speaker 3:She was like I think we should separate and I was like what?
Speaker 2:And had she cheated? Was she seeing someone else?
Speaker 3:Remains to be seen. I think so, without not getting into it, but yes, that's my assumption of it, and it took me a few months to get my shit together, and, um, I did, and here we are so is there anything that you learned like through such a long relationship that you wouldn't or would do again? Yeah, um, I think I'll. In time, I'll probably learn more, but I take, I take responsibility for for a bunch of it. I'm not going to say all of it but, um, I know that I wasn't the perfect person.
Speaker 3:I know that I could have been more helpful. I probably could have been more helpful. I probably could have been more attentive. I you know.
Speaker 1:I feel like a lot of men would say that you know, looking back, right, I mean if you self-reflect and you do the job. You said right, we're all supposed to go through our relationships, and then we're supposed to learn about what we want, what we don't want, the red flags take a post-mortem on the on the relationship right and then grow and in your next relationship, become a better person right and I think we started that way um and I feel like kids.
Speaker 1:I feel like now jack on your next, uh, so to say, now it's back. I feel like it reverts back to the type of relationship you could have with your first. The kids are pretty much older. You know what I mean. One's going to college, right, and the other one's on their way. Now I feel like kids just put like change relationships so much they just screw everything up.
Speaker 2:Moral of the story don't have them kids. No, you're right, or?
Speaker 1:you just need a man that understands. It's different now. It's different.
Speaker 3:You're right, like I don't. The runway is not as long anymore.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:There's a lot of stuff I don't care about anymore.
Speaker 1:You have time, yeah.
Speaker 3:I think I will be a better person the longer I am away from this match. You know what I'm saying.
Speaker 1:And when did you officially move out and get separated?
Speaker 3:Well, we separated. I stayed in the house for a bunch of months, so I was advised to and I moved out four or five months ago. Four months ago.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that time where you were were quote separated but still living under the same roof. I have to ask were you dating at all at that point and was she not right away yeah um, but yeah, yeah, um.
Speaker 3:I can't confirm nor deny what she was doing, but I think that she was with somebody from before that and how does that work?
Speaker 1:I see, I never had that, like I never we. When my ex we broke up, he moved out. Do you know what I'm?
Speaker 2:saying Like I feel that's so, so common. Now to the point. I'm single and I can't tell you the amount of times I've encountered a guy oh, a lot. And then, maybe on the third date, he's like yeah, I'm sleeping in the basement, right, and my kids are upstairs, right, my wife not my ex.
Speaker 3:That's what I was.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's what I was.
Speaker 2:And it's just like bye.
Speaker 1:Like I couldn't watch my ex come and go as he pleases, thinking while I'm sitting there with the two kids. But my kids are younger.
Speaker 3:Well, she's doing the same thing, Right?
Speaker 1:no, I know, like I couldn't-.
Speaker 3:Let me tell you I wasn't thrilled when I Right, didn't that?
Speaker 1:hurt you Like where is she? All you know? Fuck yeah, you're not in the sweatpants going to Target You're like in a dress dressed up and you know they're going out somewhere and your heart has to take that Like. I don't want to see it. Do you know what I'm trying to?
Speaker 2:say Totally.
Speaker 1:Because I always believe. Listen, like I said earlier, if me and my ex didn't have kids, oh, we would never speak again. But you know what, If you're not human enough to say you still don't want to look at somebody getting dressed up and going out while you're living with them. It's a disrespectful, weird thing. You know it's not like I want you back thing I feel for a lot of people, especially where we live, where it's so expensive.
Speaker 2:It's just like a financial necessity for people to live together. Yeah, no.
Speaker 3:I mean my lawyer was like don't do it, she's like you'll lose it Well, that's abandonment. You, yeah, no. I mean my lawyer was like don't do it, she's like you'll lose it Well, that's abandonment. You have kids Like you've got to follow, but also the house, right, you don't want to lose, right?
Speaker 1:I get all that If it's like that way.
Speaker 3:But when people are like, oh, I've been living with my ex for three years, oh, that's crazy yeah.
Speaker 1:No, well, maybe you know what, who knows, I don't know. I don't know because he had two kids from a previous marriage, which was a lot of upheaval, and she was suing him for like 10 years from another state. Lovely, that was a lot of stress on us too. But you know what? I think he would always say to me could you not be a mother for like five seconds and could you be like my wife, like a woman? And or he would come home from work he's, like you know, works in like a big CEO, manhattan-y job, and he'd be like you have nothing to do, all you're talking about is the house and the kids. I was, I stood home with the house and the kids. What else did I have to talk about?
Speaker 2:you know what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1:So yeah, he was lovely believe me, it was lovely, but I think, who knows, if I was still in the world, maybe he would find chefing more exciting to talk about than the laundry and the dinner that I made you and that the house is spotless, like, I think, unless you grow together.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's very important to have things outside of the house.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:And listen. You fall in love with somebody, you get married and, before the kids come, like there's a reason you got to this point. You know you love each other, you're attracted to each other, there's some passion, there's what have you, and when that goes away whether it's from kids or whatever else sometimes it's like, okay, well, what's left now?
Speaker 2:you know right, I don't.
Speaker 3:And the passion without the passion people realize. Well, I don't really like this person, that much, you know.
Speaker 1:Um, yeah, I thought that we were best friends, but but obviously we're not right when you come home and you're telling me I don't want to hear what you have to say because you're telling me that you did three loads of laundry and well, I don't know what to tell you. Like it's what I did today, I don't, I don't know what to tell you like it's what I did today. I don't, I don't know, I don't have any.
Speaker 3:And also, though, but before kids, you know, you had a life and there was more stuff to talk about and to go out till three o'clock in the morning have sex all over the couch in the chair and the whatever yeah no, absolutely, absolutely so.
Speaker 1:Who knows, I think, kids you know when, when, as the woman, when, when your dynamic changes and you know what, before you have kids, everybody tells you. I'm sure as a dad, you you can see this point of view too from your aspect. People will tell you oh, it's a lot of work, oh, you don't understand. But you know what? I had no idea. Like I thought having the kids, like I wanted kids, don't get me wrong but I thought the kids is like a bonding, like going to bring us together type of thing, like I had. I didn't even know the aspect of and I was older, I had my first at 35, but I didn't even know that dynamic of it pulls you apart, it doesn't bring you together. So I thought this is great, this will only bring us together. Having kids how could it not?
Speaker 3:I think the other side is, and I don't know if you worked or not before that.
Speaker 1:I did. I was a chef.
Speaker 3:I think that you know, I look at my parents. You know, my mother never really worked, so there wasn't as much going on in her life and in her head and so that relationship could still grow. It started that way and it ended that way, Right, exactly?
Speaker 1:Like my ex. I think he became bored of me almost because we decided I was going to stay home and I wasn't like out and about and working and bringing home money and even though it was a group decision, and then he'd come home and I would just but I don't think it's just that.
Speaker 3:I think it could be any job. I mean, the kids are the main thing.
Speaker 1:It was for me.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you know he comes home, he's tired from work and you're tired from the kids and neither of you necessarily want to hear the other one bitch or moan about what they were going through, right and you know, if there's not any mutual respect well, no, not even respect, like uh, common interest or likes that you can, you know?
Speaker 2:fall back, go play golf or like go, whatever it is you know and this is all your world is.
Speaker 3:I think that's very hard, Like I think it's very hard.
Speaker 1:It is hard and you're right, I think a lot of times we don't. Well, I didn't, I don't know about we, I didn't get to know, I had my kids very quickly, like I met him, and six months later, yeah, that's the other thing, and you're right. I've never even looked at it that way, because as time went on I remember like certain things will shoot in my head. He'd come home. He'd be like you don't even like country music. I love country music. I'm like I've never liked country music.
Speaker 3:Like you know what I? Mean like I never liked it but you also didn't have that time of like yeah time, like when I was in the city, for example, all those years before kids. You know we did shit. Like we went out to cool restaurants. I used to go see music all the time, I would you know, and there's bonding there, there's you know Right that you both like to do the same thing.
Speaker 3:And then 10 years later you turn around and like we haven't done any of this stuff in years and other than that we don't really have that much in common you know, and you know. So there's you. In my opinion, I obviously failed at this, but you have to keep the flame going while being able to do the other stuff, and without that it becomes everything, becomes a chore it does, including the, so that could be a takeaway for our female listeners out there Male listeners as- well, I think it's for both sides.
Speaker 3:I don't think this is not. This isn't this world anymore, where the woman stays home and takes care of the kids all the time, to your exception. But, like you know, we have jobs, we both have jobs and we both have our own shit going on. And how do you cut time out of all that busyness and the world's a lot busier now than it used to be to take time for yourselves.
Speaker 1:And if you don't do that and it doesn't have to be big major things, you know it's and what kind of advice would you give to our male listeners that are listening, that may be married or with a girl? Well, married is more.
Speaker 3:Don't get married, that's why I've never been married. No, I would say you know For the married ones it's little things.
Speaker 1:Don't give your phone number out to the hot blonde that comes up to the bar. But what would you tell them about that whole experience? Would you ever do it again? Or would you turn around and just end one thing and then start another?
Speaker 3:I think it depends on the person. Me, I learned my lesson? I don't think.
Speaker 1:And you learned at both ends. You learned how it feels when you thought the second time around when you thought it was done, to which I'm sure your ex what you, the first wife, was devastated the same way. You were devastated and now you saw it both folds. It's a big difference when you're the one Devastated and you had somebody to jump and go to right it just is versus when you were devastated and possibly she had somebody to go jump to. It's a very different experience.
Speaker 2:So that kind of segues into you know what was it like for you getting out there again as a newly single man in this new you know.
Speaker 3:You and I spoke briefly about this before. It's a nightmare, right, jack? It's a whole other world.
Speaker 2:How do you like the apps oh?
Speaker 3:yes.
Speaker 1:Jack, you're on the apps.
Speaker 3:I think they're like they make the time go by.
Speaker 1:It's time consuming.
Speaker 3:Well, yeah, in a good way. Sometimes I mean listen, I live alone. Your kids are older my kids and they live with her and there's a lot of nights. I'm just sitting there alone.
Speaker 1:Why not go out for a drink?
Speaker 3:but it's not no but it's not even that like I'll be watching tv and just like scrolling through apps, you know right and um. Thankfully I met somebody and you.
Speaker 1:How long did that take? Like when did you meet them?
Speaker 3:Let me see, just four months ago.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 3:But it was.
Speaker 1:See, you've been single without anybody for about eight, nine months, give or take.
Speaker 3:I went on a couple dates and, like you know, I needed to get out of the house, you know know. So initially, when I was on the sites that's what it was for I wasn't looking for anybody, um. And then I was like I was kind of I don't know. Back in the day I would go out by myself all the time. I love going out by myself, um. The city is different, though, because you can kind of walk from place to place.
Speaker 2:Here it's like all right now I'm going to drive somewhere else.
Speaker 3:Right you know so, but I didn't really want to see anybody. You know, I went out partly to get out of the house and partly to piss her off. I'm sure Right. And I will say I think it was a good thing because, you know, obviously it depends on your situation, but I was curled up in a ball Like I didn't want to do anything.
Speaker 1:Right, you were upset.
Speaker 3:I needed to get out Like I needed to do things, and that allowed me to do it Easily.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm saying Because I mean, you get on the app, and I'm sure it's not, you know. I'm just saying there's a lot of choices and it's rather than going into the wild and finding somebody, but I'd like that better, like I like the idea I like the idea that my favorite thing in new york was going out alone right, I loved it. I lived in new york. I went out alone too when I lived there, just meeting people.
Speaker 3:Sometimes it would lead to something, sometimes one, but like I, always, but I always had great conversations. I always met some interesting people Girls, guys. It wasn't necessarily romantic or anything like that.
Speaker 2:Just conversation.
Speaker 3:I agree, I don't get that anymore in bars when I go out.
Speaker 2:I don't, Because everyone's there meeting their updates. That's why Right Right, right right, Probably yeah.
Speaker 3:Or they're couples already.
Speaker 1:Like I don't see Very hard in the wild, there's not a lot of like single places especially at this age. People don't interact. There's the few around you and how old are you for the record, jack, how old are you?
Speaker 2:How old am I? I?
Speaker 3:am 53. Yeah, there's some places like the Rare and Blackstone and things like that. But you know it's not the same feel.
Speaker 1:It's not same feel it's not.
Speaker 3:It was so much. I don't want to say easier, but more comfortable.
Speaker 1:But now it's like no, it's very rare, maybe it's me.
Speaker 3:Maybe I'm more insecure now than I used to be.
Speaker 2:No, people are different. The climate, the dating climate in general, just people in general.
Speaker 1:I'll always be out at like a Blackstone, sitting in a bar whatever, and like have where we went.
Speaker 2:A steakhouse people.
Speaker 1:And like, if I end up talking to anybody, it'll be like a group of businessmen that are like, are you waiting for someone?
Speaker 2:And I'll be like no, and they'll be like are you serious?
Speaker 1:Like you're here by yourself, Like what? And they'll start talking to me and buy my meal and that's the night I have talking to the 20s, but it's a lot different for a woman than a guy.
Speaker 3:Like I could go to a bar by myself and be perfectly fine, like nobody would think twice about it.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:And you know I spent a lot of time on the road for work and I loved doing that because I would meet like the most interesting people and just you know, talk and you know, nothing you know, nefarious or anything like that, but it was just. And now it's, like you know, especially, most of my friends are married, so they're not going out. So it's like, what do you do? You stay at home all day.
Speaker 1:Right. Well, you've been successful on the date. Like you said, you've been newly dating somebody.
Speaker 3:Yes, yes.
Speaker 1:You found someone fairly quickly.
Speaker 3:That's quick. I was shocked. I was definitely shocked.
Speaker 2:Did you feel like a kid in the candy store?
Speaker 3:like on the apps, just with all the a little bit yeah, um, not necessarily that people were coming after me, but it was just like oh, look at that one, you know yeah and I think it's a little demeaning, like I think it's like, I mean it's certainly really superficial, I mean of course, it just reduces people to five pictures and a couple of words of copy and text, and that's it yeah, exactly um
Speaker 1:there's not like a big bio on the person. Most people can't be bothered. So, it's just a few like where you live your age, what you do for a living Demographic info.
Speaker 3:Hinge is a little bit better. I think they have the prompts and stuff.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly, but still people, especially guys, unfortunately, I'd say the vast majority of them, just they can't be bothered to.
Speaker 3:Yeah well, just they can't be bothered to. Yeah well, I can't. Very lazy to me that's fun, like, and just put it out there and be like well, at this point it's like what you got to lose, like what's you know right so um, but yeah, no, it's um because, yeah, it's been 20 years since you've been out in the Y, really 25. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Different. It's a lot different.
Speaker 3:It's a lot different. Yeah, Like I don't have the energy anymore to go out and sit at a bar, I mean as much as I'd like to, Right. I mean I met some really nice people, though, Like I'm friends with some of the women that I've met on these sites. Right, I just went out for drinks with one of them the other night, right, and you know we were both going through hard times and helped each other, and you know we have this nice little friendship going on Right which is nice.
Speaker 2:Yeah, meet new people? Yeah, so with your new partner, was she in a similar situation as you like? Newly separated?
Speaker 1:No, she's single, single a while. Uh, she's single single, she's um. See, like I said, I think women take a much bigger. I know I think a year after I'm gonna say eight months after we separated, my ex started, like you know, became friends with somebody and, like me, it's been like four years.
Speaker 2:We'll change that On and off? Yeah.
Speaker 1:But I feel like men meet women quicker usually.
Speaker 2:Maybe, I don't know, did she have an issue with you being separated and not officially divorced.
Speaker 3:I wouldn't call it an issue. I think it was.
Speaker 2:Gave her a pause. Gave her a pause for a minute, but you know.
Speaker 1:And what was her story? She was divorced.
Speaker 3:She's been divorced a long time.
Speaker 1:Kids, yeah, kids yeah, young, old.
Speaker 3:No, like school kids.
Speaker 1:Okay, so younger.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So she's, but they live with her.
Speaker 3:She's busy with them, Like like me, yeah so, but what I learned is you know, like you don't, like I said I might say this before, but you don't know what's missing until you see it and you know, you kind of go along with your life and thinking that's it, and I'm having a lot more fun now, um, than I've had in years and years, and didn't even realize.
Speaker 2:And why do you think that is?
Speaker 3:I think well, the person that I'm seeing is fun.
Speaker 2:She likes to go out.
Speaker 1:It's part of her life and Like in what Just like dinner shows Broadway.
Speaker 3:Dinner, bars, concerts, whatever Right, okay, just stuff, right.
Speaker 1:It doesn't even matter what it is, it's just fun and it's like and I feel like you can't do that shit when you have a three and four year old you know what I'm saying, like unless you have a live-in nanny or you're paying a sitter, you're pay.
Speaker 3:You know you're paying for the concert listen, but growing up like my parents, I mean we had, I mean when we didn't have a live-in housekeeper, we had babysitters.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:My parents went out every single Saturday night.
Speaker 1:They made an effort, though, too.
Speaker 3:Every single Saturday night, whether alone or with friends or whatever. Right that's cute. They were married for a very long time and I think at the end my mother probably hated him. Yeah, everybody does. People stay together, but growing up watching them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, gave you a good sense of they gave me if that was.
Speaker 3:they both had their individual issues, but you know it was impressive, right, and now you're having more.
Speaker 1:So you forgot so to say how to have fun. So now you're recognizing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and also are you having more fun now, in part to the ways that you've changed?
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean some of it's who I used to be.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And some of it's new. And you know, life's just too fucking short it is, and life's just too fucking short.
Speaker 1:It is, it's just too fucking short. It's true. And you have to my friend always tells me that One of my best male friends but I didn't.
Speaker 3:It's like.
Speaker 1:Melissa, life's too short.
Speaker 3:When you're in a marriage for a long time. You don't? Maybe it was me. I was like oh, I guess this is what life is.
Speaker 2:This is. Maybe it was me.
Speaker 3:I was like well, I guess this is what this is it, this is what right you know, and you know, now it's more. All right, what can I do?
Speaker 1:like what's right, what's out there? What's out there?
Speaker 3:let's have fun let's like I want to go see bands, I want to go to restaurants, I want to, you know um, and she likes to do that and it's and what's her situation with her ex like?
Speaker 1:is it amicable? Does she still have to deal with like?
Speaker 3:is there any amicable? That's as far as I can go with her right. Yeah, I can't right.
Speaker 2:But there's no like anything no kind of no, no, no you know, disturbing.
Speaker 1:No, no, no. Your relationship with her? No, no, no. Which is perfect? Which is perfect?
Speaker 3:um and yeah. So you know it's just. I think sometimes it takes somebody and whether or not it's forever or not somebody just to kind of get you out of that funk and wake up a little bit and realize that you know, hopefully you still have 30 some years left to live and what are you going to do?
Speaker 2:sit in?
Speaker 1:your bed all day, right Exactly.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but you know, living alone it's not easy, it's not, you know.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:No, it's not. Could you see yourself married again?
Speaker 3:No, I have said that if it was that important, it's open for discussion. So I won't say never, but never.
Speaker 2:So what are our takeaways, guys?
Speaker 1:Yes. What are our takeaways? What did we learn? What did we learn? Well, we learned the male perspective about cheating and why some or our guests here cheat Women ask how, why? Well, we answered that question and we don't have all the scenarios, but we have this one, you know.
Speaker 2:Looks do matter, passion does matter.
Speaker 1:Passion and looks. Kids change things. I think a relationship that starts and ends with no kids versus a relationship that starts, has kids and ends is very different. Kids versus a relationship that starts, has kids and ends is very different, and I think the relationship that the female and the male is able to have before or after the kids is also plays a part, and I don't think people put enough emphasis on that.
Speaker 3:No, you know, I think that's 100, right, like I think now um like you said you have now.
Speaker 1:Things are very different.
Speaker 3:It's very different and I don't know if this lasts or doesn't last, you know, but yeah, no, it's like the kids are still there, they're a bit older now but on my day-to-day. It's not that, it's not um. You know, I'm driving extra activities.
Speaker 1:This one's sick the doctor, I can enjoy my time with somebody you know I can right and it's listen, I know it's new and it's of course, it's always new, it's always exciting you're having sex on the table still.
Speaker 3:Right, right, I get it um, but yeah, I mean, I have no, I have no expectations right at this point.
Speaker 1:It's different.
Speaker 3:I'm not expecting anything. Everything that I get right now is bonus. Right, it's just a free for all I mean, I would love for it to get there.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:But yeah, right now I'm just happy with something new and realizing I have this whole other stage.
Speaker 1:And so do you feel like through each relationship you learned, you grew and you're moving on with each single one.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I think so. I think it takes a while to kind of figure that out, but I feel like every day I feel a little different. Some days are good, some days are bad. Right, sometimes it hits you, sometimes it doesn't.
Speaker 1:Of course that's with every relationship, right. Feel a little different, you know, some days are good, some days are bad, but right, um, sometimes it hits you.
Speaker 3:Sometimes, of course that's with every relationship, right but there are days where I'm like what, this is okay right, I'm okay.
Speaker 1:I'm okay. This is gonna be okay.
Speaker 2:Yep, I think we're all like that right, yeah, yeah, at the end of the day, we're still here.
Speaker 1:Yes, exactly, exactly. Thank you so much for telling us your story.
Speaker 2:Thank you for being our very first brave guy.
Speaker 1:See, gentlemen, when I go on social media and I'm like I'm looking for males that blank, blank, blank, blank blank, we don't kill you too much on here, it wasn't that bad, we weren't that bad, it wasn't that painful right.
Speaker 3:I'll let you know about the scars later. No it's been great, actually, you guys have been very inviting and very kind.
Speaker 1:Yes, thank you so much we really appreciate it. We really do. Thank you for joining us and we will be back again yes, please, don't forget to like.
Speaker 2:Give us only five star ratings, please, and write something nice about us, because it makes our day. Yes, come on Right, spread the love.
Speaker 1:Email us, watch our social media and we will be back again soon After the new year, right? No wait after Christmas, yeah 2025. 2025. Yay, all right guys, can't wait to see what kind of ticket.
Speaker 2:We see come up within 2025. I have some coming up for you. Unfortunately, Wonderful Allison has some.
Speaker 1:All right. Well, thank you so much and we will see you soon. And thank you to our guests again.
Speaker 2:Bye.
