Dating Daycare
Welcome to "Dating Daycare," the ultimate safe space for women navigating the unpredictable world of modern dating. Join hosts Melissa Firpo and Allison Waterman as they dish out candid advice, share hilarious anecdotes, and tackle the toughest dating dilemmas faced by women today.
In a dating landscape filled with frogs disguised as princes and a jungle of jerks, Melissa and Allison offer a nurturing haven where women can laugh, learn, and empower each other to find love on their own terms. From ghosting to breadcrumbing, from disastrous first dates to navigating online profiles, "Dating Daycare" covers it all with wit, wisdom, and plenty of wine.
With Melissa's no-nonsense approach and Allison's comedic charm, each episode feels like a heart-to-heart chat with your best girlfriends over brunch. Whether you're swiping left or swiping right, "Dating Daycare" is your go-to guide for surviving and thriving in the wild world of modern romance.
So grab your favorite beverage, kick back, and join Melissa and Allison as they navigate the highs, lows, and hilarities of dating life. Because when it comes to matters of the heart, everyone could use a little TLC from "Dating Daycare.
Dating Daycare
UNLOCKING ATTACHMENT STYLES - RELATIONSHIP RESCUE w/ Therapist, Saadia Yunus
Unlock the secrets to healthier, more fulfilling relationships as we explore the depths of attachment theory with renowned trauma therapist Saadia Yunus. Discover how your early interactions with caregivers have shaped your attachment style and how this impacts your romantic connections today. We'll also delve into the nature versus nurture debate, examining how parental presence—or the lack thereof—can influence your relational dynamics.
Join us as we navigate the murky waters of relationship red flags and identity erosion. Learn how to maintain a secure sense of self despite external criticisms and the touch of insecurities from partners. We'll share practical tips on recognizing when you're losing yourself in a relationship and the crucial role of supportive friends and family in rebuilding your self-esteem. Sadia and I also highlight the impact of different attachment styles on your romantic life, setting the foundation for self-awareness and personal growth.
We'll wrap up with a crucial discussion on setting healthy boundaries and the importance of internal validation. From identifying toxic patterns to the challenges of societal expectations, we've got you covered. Gain insights into the significance of secure attachment and how it can nurture stronger, more balanced relationships. We'll hint at future explorations into topics like trauma bonds and navigating relationships with narcissistic individuals, ensuring you leave with the tools you need to reclaim your personal power in love.
Learn more about Saadia Yunus: https://www.saadiazyunus.com/
Join our private Facebook group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/771136888074777
Follow Melissa on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/missjayl/
Follow Melissa on TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@healthychef1
Follow Allison on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/paperdolllface/
Welcome to Dating Daycare. Today we have a great show. We're going to help you once again navigate through those jungles of jerks. Ladies, I'm very excited for today. Today we have Sadia Yunus on our show and she is a trauma therapist. But today we are going to talk about attachment theory and styles, which I'm really excited about because as I look over social media and I look for those fishbowl questions, I always see you ladies talking about attachment styles and what is this attachment style and how it relates to relationships. So today we have an expert on, so she is going to go over all the attachment styles. We're going to go over how it affects the person, why they have the attachment style, how it can help us with red flags and how it will contribute or not contribute to your current or future or past relationships.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I'm excited. Okay, so tell us first, tell us your background. What's your background? How long have you been working?
Speaker 2:Where do you work? What's the name of your practice like? Give us a little rundown. Yeah, absolutely so. I'm a trauma specialist. I'm certified in EMDR, and so EMDR is an amazing trauma modality. That's research backed, evidence based, that it works three times faster than talk therapy alone. It takes a lot of extensive training and time.
Speaker 1:I've heard about that Effort and energy. Yes, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I'm certified in EMDR. I've been in private practice on Long Island Deer Park over 10 years now. This will be the 10th year.
Speaker 1:Congratulations.
Speaker 2:Thank you, it's really exciting. I work with individuals, couples and families in not only New York but Michigan and Florida as well, and I work with a lot of trauma. So developmental, childhood, relational trauma is a big one. Huge now, yes, absolutely. And marital, I would imagine, yes, absolutely All kinds of relationship issues, whether it's with a partner or family, friends, in-laws, like you name it. Right, okay, great.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's get to our excuse me, our attachment styles. Explain to us. Choking, because I wasn't really big on the attachment style my co-host is, who is in here today. She was like big, oh, they have, you know, avoidant, or they have this one or that one, and I'm always like I'm more of like what does it matter? You know, you meet the guy in the bar. You're going to be like what's your attachment style? Or you can't buy me a drink.
Speaker 2:Why not?
Speaker 1:Whoa, should I run now you know, so explain to us. Maybe it'd be easier for the attachment style and what it is, and then how we got you know. We could go through each one. That way our viewers can understand it and maybe it could help you. Ladies and gentlemen, when you meet a person, we always try to avoid the red flags. That's what we're here for to help people get into healthy relationships.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely so. Three main attachment styles, you know, sometimes people will talk about a few different ones, but really the three main ones secure, anxious, avoidant. The fourth one is disorganized, but the ones that are really the most common are the anxious and avoidant. Okay, we want to be secure, right, that's what we want. To be Anxious and avoidant is what you'll see in some relationships and that's where you kind of look for the red flags, and so what it does is it comes from our childhood, it comes from really infancy, our relationship with our early caregivers. There's a lot of research on it where they actually videotape, they record infants with their mothers and see the impact of that when the mother leaves the room, when she comes back, and how the child is responding to that. So that anxious attachment happens when the relationship between the caregiver and the child is unpredictable. It's scattered, the parent wasn't there, they were there at certain times and other times they weren't there. So it's unpredictable, so it leaves the infant feeling confused.
Speaker 1:So is this something that would happen? God forbid a death of a parent, a divorce of a parent, that would leave the home, or could it even be as light as the mother was a stay-at-home mother and then had to go to work full time? Yes and the mother had to leave or drop the kid in daycare?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and that's why there's not always blame when it comes to how this attachment style was developed, because it can be something as simple as that.
Speaker 1:The single mother now have to go back to work full time and the kid goes into daycare at six, eight months a year.
Speaker 2:Yes, and not only that. It's like the mother leaves the room, goes to the kitchen to cook and then the child feels that anxiousness right, the anxiousness comes up in the body and the nervous system and there's this sense of is my caregiver going to come back? That's where that insecurity kind of develops. It's like are they going to come back or are they going to leave me?
Speaker 1:And we see that in relationships right and that has, but also does that come with. You're born with that, so to say. So are some children born with more of a just being? You know, some people are more anxious than others. You know, are some children born where the mother will leave the room and maybe they're okay where the other child is not okay and panic?
Speaker 2:stricken Right Absolutely, and that's a nature versus nurture conversation. Okay, right, I lean more towards nurture, but there are dispositions right, like an anxious disposition or a more like independent disposition.
Speaker 2:That's definitely there. And at the same time there's the nurture aspect of what happened in their relationship with their early caregivers, and so that anxious attachment comes about when it's an uncertainty of is my caregiver going to come back, are they going to take care of me, are they going to love me, and then that avoidant attachment is. It happens when there's an uncertainty of whether they matter to their caregiver, and that happens a little bit, yes, in infancy, but in toddlerhood do I really matter? Do my needs matter? Are my needs going to be met by my parent? And so they find that, okay, my needs are not going to be met, and so I'm just going to yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to take care of myself and I'm not going to depend on anyone. I'm going to avoid people. And then, as you grow older, it's a lot more of that independence, but there's conscious avoidance as well, because I can't depend on people, I can't rely on people.
Speaker 1:Sounds like my ex yeah. Okay, yes, all of it is coming to light Right Right, which would make sense because they were adopted and they had an alcoholic. You know family, so what you're saying I understanding now okay, yeah, so it makes sense why the person is like that, right?
Speaker 1:so you know, it's funny growing up. Well, now that I'm older, you always say you wish you knew then what you know now. Right, and I've said this on the podcast, I never thought it mattered your family background, and when I say family background I mean your upbringing. For instance, I come from a, you know, russian-italian household. Grandparents were there, cousins were there. Everybody got along, nobody's divorced, have all the holidays we celebrate, the Christian, the Jew, every. You know it was that type of childhood and I said, well, what does it matter if that person didn't have a childhood like me? What does it matter if they were adopted or came from an alcoholic family? Or or let's just say, this isn't my instance, but maybe we're abused, or but it does, absolutely, but it does.
Speaker 1:So I see a lot of women, when we look for our fishbowl questions, say things like you know, his parents are divorced and his mom had a really hard time and there was a lot of fighting in the household and a lot of traumatic stuff. For this, you know, should that matter to me? Like, yes, it should matter to you, you know, but a lot of people don't realize that they want. They don't want to judge. You know there's a lot of that going on, I find today too. You know, when it comes to picking me, oh well, I don't want to judge. He's just getting divorced and has no money. How is he taking you out to dinner? You know, I'm just saying, but a lot of people they want to give grace and giving the grace hurts you and possibly your children in the long run.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and it's grace is important right in relationships and that preservation of self right, because you matter too in the relationship. Right, it's not only the other person, and I think what, sometimes, often, what we do is we focus so much on that other person we lose ourselves or try to fix them.
Speaker 1:Yes, are you fixing let's clear this up, ladies and gents Are you fixing attachment style? You know what I'm saying. When you meet, let's say, somebody out there, meets this avoidant which, to me correct me if I'm wrong those two attachment styles that you just mentioned seem like they're the red flag. It seemed like they're not the easiest to deal with in the long run. Are you changing them? As the girlfriend I meet you, I say I watch dating daycare and this guy has an avoidant attachment style. He has exactly what you describe. I'll change him, I'll make him feel secure. I'll show him that I'll put 10 toes down in the sand For him and he can trust me. Does that work? And then I'll ask 10 toes down in the sand for him and he can trust me, does that work?
Speaker 2:And then I'll ask you what is that inside of you that you feel you need to be the fixer? Right See, ladies? So is there that insecurity there, is there that anxious attachment there that you've got to fix someone, that you've got to be the fixer. Why is that need there?
Speaker 1:But most likely, you're not fixing an adult. Without being a therapist or qualified like you are, You're not changing somebody's attachment style. Is it even possible for a regular human like me, who's not certified in any type of you know degree, to change that? Not at all. It's really about you working degree to change that.
Speaker 2:Not at all Right. It's really about you working on yourself and being that secure attachment, and then the other person can start to develop that secure attachment as well, because then they feel secure in the relationship with you. But that requires you to focus on yourself.
Speaker 1:And it requires if the other person has the attachment, which one was the one where they're avoidant and they avoidant attachment. Yes, Even if you're the most securest person in the world and show all the right things, you know, oh, they don't trust you. They want to look on your phone.
Speaker 1:Okay, here look on my phone. Oh, I don't trust that. You are where you say you're going to be. You're going out where you're going. Who knows I'm making something up and you here track me. I am where I am. That still doesn't guarantee that that avoidant is going to start to trust you.
Speaker 2:Correct. Yes, absolutely. It requires that inner work it really does Sitting with a professional, with a therapist, to go deep down to really understand where your attachment style is coming from and then to heal those childhood wounds. It's a much deeper process Because if you're in that relationship where there's the red flags and now you're trying to fix the other person and you're doing all these things, you're going to be lost in that cycle and then in that cycle you lose yourself.
Speaker 1:You're going to be lost in that cycle and then in that cycle you lose yourself 100%. Yes, now what's the other?
Speaker 2:the secure right, the secure is the good attachment, so to say the good attachment style.
Speaker 1:The healthy, I should say it's healthy, yes, that secure attachment is healthy.
Speaker 2:Where you have a sense of self, like you are your own autonomous self, you're securing yourself and you can be in that good and positive relationship. Right, that healthy relationship. It isn't that codependence on the other person where I need you to In order for me to feel safe. I need you in order for me to feel worthy.
Speaker 1:Accolades. Oh my God, you're so beautiful today. Oh my God, your gray sweater matches so good with your black. Oh my God, you're that right. You just need to get dressed and know. I love this outfit. I look great today. I'm happy walking out of the house and we go, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yes, and we go yes.
Speaker 1:And we find that a lot too. Ladies, when I look on social media and I get once again the fishbowl questions, I find a lot of that too. Women, my boyfriend, I got dressed today I think we just did a question on this. I put on a winter sweater it was a reindeer, you know, one of those ugly sweaters and I loved it and he made fun of me all day and he was like your sweater's, so ugly. You're this, you're that she needed a secure attachment style and she needed to turn around. And I don't care if you think it's ugly, I love the sweater, I'm wearing it and we're done Right.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:That's the secure part of you right, that you don't. Oh, you get your nails done and you know someone says, oh what? I don't? I don't like that, I don't. You look ridiculous, you would. I like it, I like you don't. You're not wearing it, you don't know. Am I embarrassing you?
Speaker 2:You know right, Instead, what oftentimes, if you have that insecure, right sense of self and you're going to start to question yourself 100%, You're going to change yourself 100%. And mold yourself and then just to be agreeable, just to be likable, right that people pleasing. It's called the fawning trauma response Because you've learned it from an early age that you have to be agreeable. You have to people, please in order for others to accept you, yes, especially women, yeah.
Speaker 2:And then you end up losing your entire personality and you don't know who you are anymore, because you've worked so hard to just be accepted by the other person.
Speaker 1:Very true, we see that a lot. I actually it's funny that you say that, but I went through like that's hitting home. That's hitting home for me.
Speaker 1:And you know what? Tell me if I'm right or wrong about this. If you're secure and you date or you're with or you marry ladies and insecure or avoidant, they change you. So the secure could through the trauma responses could, if it's a ladder and secure is here, you could melt your way down to that. But they never melt their way up. They stay the same and, like you said, like I was always. Like you're wearing that, your nails look like that, your hair, and then I'd be. And then I started questioning myself like do I really look like that out and like be? And then I started questioning myself like do I really look like that out? And put like do other people saying that about me? Like I don't want other people to think that this shirt's too tight right or my boobs are too big, like I don't want to come off like that and then I question it's very slow and then by the time the person leaves, it took me two years to come back to the secure person that I am, when I'm like screw you.
Speaker 1:You don't like it, walk the other way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, good for you, congratulations. Well, yeah, it's not easy.
Speaker 1:You know, but we started this podcast because we wanted to help women not get to that point.
Speaker 2:It's very hard to recognize that you're in a downfall when you're in it Right, absolutely, and that's why it's so important to have your people around you.
Speaker 1:Yes, right.
Speaker 2:If you're in this relationship where you're slowly losing yourself, you have those people who recognize that and they start to let you see it, because oftentimes you can't see it Correct and so people will point it to you like hey, you're acting different, or what's going on?
Speaker 1:Or you look fine. I love your nails. What's wrong? People you respect people. You trust maybe your parents or a cousin or best friend, right, that you can go to. And we said this with our domestic violence episode. That was even available.
Speaker 1:If the, if people are not sure, if you're not sure, if you're going crazy or you, this is really a problem. You need to ask a family, you know, do you? Do you think the shirt's too tight? Like do I look? And of course, everybody's gonna have their own opinions, but most of the time somebody could steer you in the right way. Like what are you talking? You've always looked, you've always dressed like that. What's the problem? And of course, everybody's going to have their own opinions, but most of the time, somebody could steer you in the right way. Like what are you talking? You've always looked, you've always dressed like that. What's the problem? Now You're fine. It's your style, right? You want purple hair. You've always had purple, green, blue hair. It's not my style. You'll never see my hair purple, but it doesn't make you bad. Yeah, exactly, it's your style.
Speaker 2:Yes, and it's so important to ground yourself in that and then say that to yourself. So when you have the people around you who say you're beautiful, you look amazing, you've got to be able to say that to yourself, right? So you look in the mirror and then you say that, and that's how you challenge those negative beliefs and negative thoughts about yourself. I do look good, I am proud of myself, I do love myself. And then ask do I really even believe that? And if I don't believe it, then I've got to do some work.
Speaker 1:I've got to see a therapist.
Speaker 2:I've got to work on myself and build myself back up again.
Speaker 1:And how do we now? Let's talk about this. Now we know the attachment styles right, Secure, avoidant and fearful, Anxious, Anxious. And what was that other one that you said was rare? It was disorganized.
Speaker 2:What's that now? So that's like a mix between anxious and avoidant. It's even worse, ladies.
Speaker 1:So I guess we don't want to go down that road. Let's just stick with the others. Right, we don't want to get down to the bottom of the floor.
Speaker 2:No, not at all Okay.
Speaker 1:Now we're out or we're on these dating websites, we meet a man, we listen, we write down, we have our notes, we know our attachment styles, we know how you describe them, how the person should be, and we say, ooh, this person might be an avoidant. What should we do? Or, oh, secure, we know you're fine, this man is fine, he owns his own business, he's secure in you know, whatever it is, he's got a great family background. Let's just paint a picture. You know parents together 45 years, great, happy talks to his cousins, his aunts and uncle has nice friends. You know, seems secure. All right, that guy's good. We don't need to worry about that guy. Right, because you could go along, you could date the guy, go out for a drink and see if you mesh together. Right, there's no way he's going to harm you, so to say, as we're saying. I mean, he could be a lunatic, but you have to go see.
Speaker 1:But now what happens? If you meet the man that's like hi, I'm divorced twice, I got two kids. I was adopted. My father was an alcoholic. I haven't talked to my sister in five years. I'm just naming different things, ladies. I haven't talked to my sister in five years. I'm just naming different things, ladies. I don't talk to my sister or brother. I'm not close to my mother.
Speaker 1:I love that one. I run with that Never again. I never make the same mistake twice. You know, when all these different and I'm sure you see it in your practice women come to you with all these red flags, how do they know they're actually red flags? What should we look out for?
Speaker 2:And that's the thing, because attachment it comes out in communication, it comes out when there's a conflict. Okay, explain that further. Yes, tell us, give us examples. Yes, you may not know by all these outward things, right?
Speaker 1:They may hide it. Yeah, whims, if they don't tell you about any of that stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, so a person's circumstances, they might have all of those, but then they're securely attached. Have they done the inner work is what you want to know. Have they done the inner work? Have they been in therapy? Have they worked on themselves? Have they done that self-development work where now they know that they've got to work on their communication? They have to learn how to express their emotions, listen to emotions, how?
Speaker 1:does that come out? So how does it come out with them expressing their emotions and with a fight, like you said, like? Can you give us an example of how Do they get disrespectful?
Speaker 2:right, is there yelling or throwing things or just saying I'm not dealing with this and going into the other room? Right, that would be that avoidance, I'm not dealing with this, I'm going into the other room. Or insecure would be things like okay, I knew you didn't care about me, I don't matter anyways, you never needed me. Yes, and so all of these things. That's where you really know when there's a conflict, when there's a disagreement, you'll see these signs and are they able to come back and then repair. That's the important piece too, because sometimes we say things right and arguments and things come up, but do we come back and repair and apologize and try to make that relationship work? That's the key. How do they communicate in times of distress?
Speaker 1:Okay. So that's the big red flag when you're having the fight or you don't agree on something and seeing how they handle it, are they calm, cool and collective? Work it out with you, peace it. Oh, you want to go here, I don't want to go there, or you know, I mean it could be family, right? When you're dealing with in-laws.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:Right that type of thing, how they react.
Speaker 2:Yes, and how they treat you in an argument, right, how are they treating you, how are they speaking to you? What are they saying to you? That's what you want to pay attention to that you aren't being emotionally harmed.
Speaker 1:Right, and how they speak to you and how they speak to others is normally how they'll speak to you. You know, because I see a lot of women on here too. Ladies, let's go over this, because this is flashing a light bulb in my head too. I see a lot of women on here too. Ladies, let's go over this, because this is flashing a light bulb in my head too. I see a lot of comments like this the woman gets strong enough to break up, right, because all these things are going on. You've lost yourself, he's not treating you nice, whatever. And then, whether you're getting divorced, he cheated or whatever, and then the women are so scared, which I understand.
Speaker 1:I understand this concept. They say, oh my God, he met a new girl and he never treated me like that. Look at how he's treating her, look at how. You know, is it possible that it was me and that he treated me horribly? But he's going to treat her better? No, it's not possible, and she's going to tell you why. But this is a bit, and I get it. It's hurtful. Hey, listen, I have to break up too. We're all human and I talk about it on here all the time, and you know that in the back of my mind I had that thought Is he going to treat the next? He treated me badly, but is he going to treat her better and get the better part of him? Maybe I didn't go this far, but a lot of women will say maybe if I did change my nails, maybe if I didn't wear the tight shirt that he didn't like because she doesn't. And look, he's treating her nicer and he's taking her out to dinner or whatever he's doing.
Speaker 2:That is portraying being nicer and that's where you know that the relationship was not good for you. Because you are questioning yourself. That's when you know it wasn't good for you. Because you're questioning yourself, You're saying I should have, should have, should have. Every time you hear the word should, you are being harsh on yourself, You're judging yourself. That's self-criticism. I always tell everybody when you hear the word should, change it to I choose to or I choose not to.
Speaker 1:Right, like don't make the same mistake twice yeah.
Speaker 2:Correct it. I chose not to Right Change my nail. It's not for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not for me.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Right, I chose not to do it because it's not for me. That's okay too, and I think a lot of women have a problem saying that when they come from these toxic relationships. Yes, you know, I like my hair purple. You're allowed to say that I like my long nails. Guess what? I'm allowed to say that If it's not, if you don't like it, no one's forcing you to be with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and if a relationship doesn't make room for you exactly as you are, then you ask yourself if that relationship is really serving you at all. Right, it's not healthy. No, it's got to allow room for you to be who you are exactly as you are.
Speaker 1:So what else should women look out for? Because, also, you do so. Those are the attachment styles. That's what we want to look out for, really important. Ladies, once again, right, when you're in conflict, how they treat you during an argument, how they treat other people, and if they've done the inner work and if they've never had therapy. What about this question? He promises he's never going to do it again and that he's going to change. Is that even possible? 90% of the time? What is?
Speaker 2:he doing to make the changes right it?
Speaker 1:himself, like you know, sitting in his bedroom and reading what he should. You know that's our. You know that is a good point I always say once you're in your adulthood, right very hard to change without constant therapy yeah, very hard, that's why we have therapists and that's why they're experts and a lot of women find themselves on the Merrick go round of. He said he's going to change. I believed him, gave him the opportunity to change. He didn't change, but he said he'll never do it again.
Speaker 2:And he said he'll never do it again and he needs counseling, yeah, and I'd be curious as to what keeps you in that relationship with a person who's refusing to change. What is it inside of you that's keeping you there?
Speaker 1:Right, and that's where the work is Right and a lot of women say I don't want to start all over again. I have young kids and I'm a stay-at-home mom and I have no money and I have nowhere to go. I read that every day for you, ladies. I really do. You know, we could barely afford what we're affording now. How am I going? Yeah, it is. It's not easy.
Speaker 2:It was very scary.
Speaker 1:Very scary.
Speaker 2:I've worked with countless women who it's helping them to leave toxic relationships, and it's not easy and those doubts come up, but it's about strengthening your relationship with yourself so that you know that you will be able to handle anything Right.
Speaker 1:Right, Especially when you're a mom you have to. Right. That makes it even more common. When you're kind of I always say, if I had no kids I wouldn't care. There's some things you wouldn't care it makes it easier just to leave. It makes it easier. I wouldn't care what he says or what he does or what the courts do to me, but when you have young kids and they're going to be, you know, affected, it hinders, you know, it holds back a lot of women from doing what's the healthy thing is to do.
Speaker 2:Absolutely, and there's so much research on how good it is for the kids when that happens, when they leave that toxic relationship. And now they're in maybe two healthy homes right Right, or one really healthy home and so it's actually good for the kids to see that and they learn my mom was strong, she didn't put up with crap, she had that value in herself and it teaches them to have that value in themselves.
Speaker 1:Right, because you don't want. I always say this too you don't want the children growing up thinking that's their standard norm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you don't have to say anywhere you feel uncomfortable. You don't have to say anywhere where you're not valued yes, and it teaches them that message, yep absolutely.
Speaker 1:And then what are some? I always like when we have psychologists and therapists and people in. I always like to say what is your opinion on in today's day and age and dating or marriages? Well, once you're married, you're already affected, but what are the red flags? What are red flags that you see in dating nowadays that you have these women coming in or men, for that matter, that now need are broken or know broken or have been affected by these toxic relationships Like? What advice would you give?
Speaker 2:Right and red flags. We can go on forever, right.
Speaker 2:There's so many but it's really about being grounded in yourself so that you can recognize them. And again, it's about if the other person is focusing on themselves most of the time right, and their own feelings and what they're going through, and they're not concerned about you, your feelings, your thoughts. That's really what you're looking for. Are they able to care for me and hold space for my feelings, my anger, you know, whatever else it is that I'm feeling? Are they able to hold space for that and make room for it and honor it?
Speaker 2:And if they're focusing on their own feelings, like you made me feel this way, or you didn't love, you don't love me, you don't care for me, those kinds of things that comes out that's where you're, you know it raises that red flag you've got to think about. Comes out that's where you're, you know it raises that red flag You've got to think about. Are they in it for themselves or do you matter? You want to find a relationship in which you are priority and you matter and they're able to hold space for you and everything that you're feeling. And if they're not, then that's something to question.
Speaker 1:And also that I also. We always talk about the, the 5050. That's a big thing. Now these men are turning around and being like well, you know 5050 this and 5050 that, and I'm not paying for the date and I'm not. You know, you're, you have two kids, you need to cook and clean and work a 50 hour week and do this and this, that's not what you're looking for. Ladies. A 50 hour week and do this and this, that's not what you're looking for. Ladies, that's not what she just did. That's not somebody caring about your well being. And you know like, oh my gosh, you know you're working. You could you have two kids. Let me help you, let me clean on Sundays with you. Let me hire you a cleaning lady once. I don't care what it is, but let me help you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, generosity, generosity In love, in care, in money, you know that's what you're really looking for.
Speaker 1:Not, it's your job, that's what you're supposed to do and create a list.
Speaker 2:Create a list of what qualities are important to you and what are non-negotiables, what is something you'll never agree to. Create that for yourself and then put that down, and so that you know exactly what you're looking for and what you're not willing to compromise on.
Speaker 1:And you should. I always say this ladies, you should never compromise. A lot of women compromise. I see it all day long. That's another reason why we came out with this podcast. That's a big one. Compromise A lot of people and I've done it myself. I'm guilty. I compromised. I used to have a boundary, when I was younger, of I would never date a man who had kids, and I kept that boundary for so long until I met my ex and I broke it. I broke it because I was getting older, I was getting nervous. Now I was in my upper 30s, you know they didn't live in the state they lived, you know, far away, and I said, well, it's different because they don't live here and you know I'm older. Now All the people, all the men I meet, most likely, are going to have young kids. Like I let my boundary go and I'm telling you right now I should have never. I should have never. So write those boundaries down and you stick with them. I always say you have to be secure with being alone. Yes, absolutely.
Speaker 2:Isn't that a big one?
Speaker 1:I'm sure you see a lot of women and men that are so scared to be alone.
Speaker 2:Yes, and that's where the work is right. Do the work. What is keeping you from being afraid? Right Companionship sex.
Speaker 1:I hear it all. I hear I will die alone with my dog, rather than no, really I say it, I say to my father all the time. I think I might die alone because I will never again compromise my standards and wants and needs.
Speaker 2:Just to have a relationship. Yeah, and there's alone, and then there's lonely, right, you can be alone, and then you have your dog and you have people who love you.
Speaker 1:I have tons of people and friends. I'm not lonely.
Speaker 2:They're around you and you have yourself, your relationship with yourself, the most important relationship, it is.
Speaker 1:Can you be home alone on a Saturday night, read a book, take a nice bath and watch something on Netflix and be okay? Yes, or are you sitting there?
Speaker 2:That sounds amazing, anxious right, me too.
Speaker 1:Or are you sitting there anxious, like where can I go? What can I do? I'm lonely. This is horrible. This is you know. I see a lot of moms. Another thing I see ladies. I see a lot of moms who are in the process of getting divorced or never, you know, not married, like I wasn't married, and get you know a partner's leaving and they say, oh my God, mom's out there Every other weekend. My kids are going to be gone. I'm beside myself crying, I don't know what to do. How do you ladies do this? Of course I get it. You're used to having your kids all the time, unless you took them to a friend's or a grandparents and it was on your terms. I get that. But I always comment listen, get a little, just a little bit of therapy, and you know, work just a little bit.
Speaker 1:A little bit, not a lot and work on yourself, because I could name. I don't have that, my kids don't. I always have my kids, so I'm on the other side. Do you know what I would do on a Friday to a Monday without both of my children? Right, I mean from fun to not fun, laundry, catch up on movies I've wanted to watch, maybe even go to an adult movie at the movie theater, because I'm always there. I mean I could name eight, rearrange my. I mean give my dog a bath, go out with my cousin for a drink Like I could name eight.
Speaker 2:My weekend would go so fast I wouldn't know what to do with myself, right, and you mentioned that feeling that people get sometimes, right, that anxiousness of like I can't be alone. And that's why not only therapy but EMDR is really healing, because we bring down that anxiousness so you don't have to feel it anymore. And so what it does is it goes beyond just talk therapy, right, it tackles that limbic system of the brain where that anxiousness is coming up. Right, you're alone on that Saturday night and the anxiousness is coming up, your heart rate is increasing, you're feeling energy in your chest, you know your palms are sweating. All of that yeah, it's panic, it's all of that is your body reacting to being alone, because one time in your past, or many times, it did not feel safe to be alone. And so that's where it comes from. It doesn't come out of nowhere it comes from a previous experience.
Speaker 1:So if you were alone. There's the childhood thing again. Yes, you were two years old, you were adopted. Yep, you were enforced. Whatever it might be, you looked around.
Speaker 2:Your parents weren't there, and so that anxiousness in your body showed up. And now you're 43, you're alone on the couch and that same feeling is coming up, Interesting. And so what we do in EMDR is we target that original memory and we bring down all of those symptoms that the body is experiencing.
Speaker 1:Now, does EMDR work? Let's say you have a boyfriend and he is the one that's giving you anxious feelings. As long as that boyfriend continues to do it, does that have to be removed for the EMDR to work, or can the EMDR work alongside what's causing it, so to say it?
Speaker 2:can work alongside. The trigger is there. Obviously it makes it more difficult, but it can, because it's your body and nervous system that we're healing. Okay.
Speaker 1:So it will be less triggering. So you learn how to deal. Also, god forbid the women that are like, oh, I'm with the narcissist and I'm feeling all these feelings. Emdr, then, might also be an option for you.
Speaker 2:Absolutely.
Speaker 1:It's a tool also to deal with the narcissist.
Speaker 2:Is that correct? It's not only a tool, it is a healing mechanism so that your body won't respond in the same way. It won't have those anxious feelings, your nervous system will be calmer in the person's presence.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 2:And so you'll be better able to handle. Right Once you have the EMDR and it heals that in your body, you're better able to handle conversations, conflict, Whereas before maybe you did go into a panic, Right Now you're calm, cool, collected and now you can choose. You're basically in your personal power to choose how to respond.
Speaker 1:And how is that? If you want to say performed, given in a setting, like is it the same? I'm sure people that aren't familiar with it are going to wonder is that you know? What do you like? Is it through a client talking with you? Is there a special method? Is there a machine Like how is it done?
Speaker 2:Did you hypnotize them? You machine, how is it done? Did you hypnotize?
Speaker 1:them. How is it done?
Speaker 2:Absolutely. So we use eye movement because EMDR stands for eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. So we use eye movement. So it's like rapid eye movement, kind of like while we're sleeping, right In REM sleep, and it's processing past memories while we're sleeping. So we do this in a wake state and we use eye movement so we can use a machine, we can use our fingers so that you follow it along, and so your eyes are rapidly moving from left to right and it's processing through the memory, it's healing the impact of that memory in your brain, your body and your nervous system.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting. Yes, Okay, because I have heard about it but I didn't know. Also, I'm sure many of you didn't know how it was administered. So to say yeah, absolutely Okay, great.
Speaker 2:So you'll see an EMDR trained or EMDR certified therapist. I'm EMDR certified and so I have the light machine. It's a machine that you could just follow the light back and forth in my office, even virtually. It works as well and it does miraculous things.
Speaker 1:Wow, that's great to know and does it also work for those mothers that want to know Does it work all ages?
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:Children, teenagers, adults, grandparents, I mean everybody.
Speaker 2:Absolutely everybody. I work with infants to. You know the end of the lifespan.
Speaker 1:You know, absolutely anybody. It can work. That's good to know, very good to know. Yeah, it's research-backed, evidence-based.
Speaker 2:It works. It's three times faster than just talk therapy alone, because it goes to a part of the brain that talk therapy doesn't go to.
Speaker 1:It can't hit, yeah, can't hit, yeah absolutely Like those young type of traumatic event you know past back Exactly yeah. So, ladies, what have we learned today? We have learned that it all stems from your childhood, and the person's background really does matter.
Speaker 2:Right.
Speaker 1:It just does when we're talking about relationships yes, right, yes. And who you're going to marry and who you're going to live with and who you're going to have children with, right. I always tell my daughter that and my son that who you marry and have children with is one of the most important decisions of your life. So for those youngins that are watching, it is right, it is one of the most important. It could derail your life to the left and make it miserable, or it could go to the right and make it wonderful. It could be a wonderful experience or it could be an absolute horrific experience.
Speaker 2:Right, absolutely. And it starts with your relationship with yourself. Yep, build that up, strengthen that up, make sure that you are secure in in yourself and then you'll know, when you're in a relationship, what's okay and what's not okay.
Speaker 1:Mm-hmm, yeah, and then when you meet somebody, you won't have all these questions and you know what. Here's the thing too. Like maybe some people that need some therapy and some women are like, how am I gonna know when I'm there? Like, how am I gonna? And I'm telling you, ladies, you're absolutely gonna know when you're there, because you're just gonna be like, how am I going to know when I'm there, like, how am I going to? And I'm telling you, ladies, you're absolutely going to know when you're there, because you're just going to be like yeah, no, and not care. It's almost like you don't care what people think anymore. You know where before you were like, oh my God, like I said, is the shirt too tight or what's you know? What's his new wife going to think of me? Or what's his mother going to think of me now? Or our mutual friends set us up. What's the mutual friend? You know you have all these. What are my kids going to think of me? What? All these questions?
Speaker 1:Right, questioning yourself, what is everybody going to think of you? You get to a point where, like, where I am, where you're like, you know what. Everybody could go shake it to the left. This is you know and you stand your ground and you're not scared to say you'll tell anybody. Like I always say to you, ladies, you should all know this by heart right now, what is my number one rule?
Speaker 1:And watch me break this rule one day and, like everybody, be like I will not date a man with young kids, and that is the pot calling the kettle black. Oh boy, because I have young kids, I have a nine and 10 year old I will not, and I and? But that's crazy, what do you? You can't do that. That's the pot calling the kettle black. There's a line in the sand, ladies, where I say good, I don't care, I'll die alone, I'm not doing it, you know what? That's my, that's how you know. You're there right, when you could take anything and say I'm not defending it, it is what it think, what you want. Yeah, call me what you want. Crazy, lunatic this. That.
Speaker 2:It's good for me, yeah. And what makes you care about what other people think in the first place? It's that insecurity.
Speaker 1:Absolutely.
Speaker 2:It's questioning yourself because you rely on external validation right instead of the internal inside of you Right, and that's the place to do the work.
Speaker 1:And of course nobody wants people to think they're crazy or mean right. Most of us want to be viewed as good, morally, ethically, great parents, great wife. We like to be liked Absolutely. We like to be liked Absolutely. We like to be liked Absolutely, yeah.
Speaker 2:But it's being able to set those boundaries right and not back down. Some people have such a tough time even setting boundaries right, even speaking up for themselves. Very hard Because of the fear of how the other person will respond, or they're not going to get anybody.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what happens if my boundaries are set? I have friends male friends all the time that make fun of me laughing and they go your boundaries and standards. You're looking for a unicorn? And I go. I may be, you're very right, I am looking for a unicorn. But guess what? That's okay, I'll die alone. I'll die alone If I don't find the unicorn. And it doesn't exist. They're like, well, you're going to get older and then nobody's going to be interested. That's okay. Yeah, why?
Speaker 2:settle. Why settle with somebody who doesn't fit you?
Speaker 1:right, that's okay. Who doesn't treat you right?
Speaker 2:It's valuing yourself enough to know that you deserve the best.
Speaker 1:But you really have to work on yourself. You know you have to work on yourself. You don't get that way by chance, you know. And for those you know and here's another big thing I see a lot of oh well, my husband doesn't believe in therapy, my wife doesn't believe, you know, I'm sure they don't, they won't. I'm sure you get clients that are there alone because the other one won't join them or won't be agreeable or won't, or comes and then fires them and walks out.
Speaker 2:I'm sure you've seen it all, I'm sure this happens all day long.
Speaker 1:You know, therapy is a great thing. I'm going to advocate for it. You know if you're open and you're willing to change and reboot your computer. That's how I you know. You're rebooting your computer to think a different way.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I tell everyone if your spouse, your partner, is not willing to go, then you go, because you will benefit so much and it actually helps the relationship as well. Yep.
Speaker 1:So if that you know, if that's your problem, oh, I want to go, but he won't go. You go, you go, you go, and then maybe, when he sees you go or she sees you go, they'll go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, absolutely, and it makes a difference Even when you change. Just think of it as like two parts, right? When you change one part of it, the other part will slowly change or mold. There'll be a difference and you'll see it. Yes, great, wonderful.
Speaker 1:Is there anything else we should add about the attachment styles or anything that you think they should know? I think we covered a lot of ground.
Speaker 2:Yes, I think we covered a lot of ground. It's really just knowing what your own attachment style is too, and knowing the steps to get to that secure attachment.
Speaker 1:So everybody wants to be in the secure area? Yes, absolutely, and anything below that needs work.
Speaker 2:Mm-hmm 100%.
Speaker 1:Because it will cause issues.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'll wreak havoc on your life and your relationships and you'll really lose yourself. So secure attachment is being fully grounded in yourself, which is absolutely essential.
Speaker 1:And do you find one last thing Do you find that most people just through your daily life as a therapist I'm sure you can pick things out quicker than than us then we could see them or pick things that maybe when your kids bring home a friend or you know, I'm just saying or you meet a meet somebody out there, school mom or whatever it is you're meeting Do you find most people are secure or most people are on the other?
Speaker 2:spectrum. That's a good question, because I was looking into the research and it was saying the majority of people are secure, and I was actually pretty surprised. Yeah, I'm like, where did that research come from? Right, because I find that most people are anxious and there's a lot of people that are avoidant as well, and oftentimes the anxious and the avoidant will find themselves in a relationship. Oh, what happens with that? They will get into a whole lot of trouble, right? I mean, there's a lot of relationships like that. I see a lot of couples, I work with a lot of couples, and it's often the case, right, and it's what we call the pursuer-distancer, so one person is pursuing, the other person is distancing, and so it's this constant dance.
Speaker 1:That's where that trauma bond? Is that where that comes in? Yes, the trauma bond.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's a whole other conversation.
Speaker 1:I got to come back for that, okay, no, definitely I'd love to have you back because we want to hit trauma bonds, ghosting gaslighting.
Speaker 2:What is narcissism really? And survivors of narcissistic abuse. It's so important to have that support network and talk about it more so we can recognize it.
Speaker 1:Yes, that would be wonderful. We'll definitely have to do that. Where we can hit each topic, discuss it, because a lot of people will say, oh, that word's used so much. I'm not a narcissist or you know. People are throwing the word around all the time and it's a very big word now.
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely, and there's clear signs. You know, you just really have to know, to really study it, to know what is actually narcissism, right, okay?
Speaker 1:Yes, but that is so if the avoidant and the anxious get together that's where you see the crazy relationships. Right Then, if you get a secure and an anxious, or a secure and an avoidant, that's where you see the. I would assume I was with a narcissist. You know what I mean the crazy one side. You know they need help. We're all okay over here. So there's a lot of different combos to think about.
Speaker 2:Absolutely yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:Well, ladies, that's it for today. I hope that helped, and we're definitely I'm definitely going to invite you back on and we're going to go over gaslighting, because that is a huge one. I think that'll be a really good follow-up to this. How do you know you're being gaslighted? And we can do trauma bonds? Yes, absolutely, and we could go do ghosting. Ghosting coming back, ghosting, coming back, ghosting, coming back. See that all the time from you, ladies.
Speaker 2:Yeah, self-abandonment, that's a huge one, okay, we could put that in with ghosting.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So, ladies, gents, if there's one of those that you want to hear about quicker than the other, please do write in comment on our podcast. On the bottom, you can email us, or we have a Facebook group, dating daycare, or Instagram. Get in touch with us somehow some way and let us know, and I hope you enjoyed the episode. Have a great day and we will see you next time on dating daycare.
